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the fiscal cliff. right after the election wall street dropped 5% when everybody suddenly focused on the fiscal cliff and realized that this was a problem. but since then it's kind of bumped along at this sort of level. i don't think wall street is at all sanguine about the idea that if we went over the fiscal cliff, life would go on as we know it and everything would be fine. >> one of the things that was really interesting to me to bear out that point is ken conrad yesterday who's been so down, i mean, he's leaving the senate. he's done this for seven years. they can't produce deals. and yesterday when i interviewed him, joe, he said i think we're going to make this. i think the boehner offer had significant indicators that something here is going on, and they're going to come together. >> also, kent conrad, a guy -- i've loved him for a long time, deficit hawk. they haven't allowed him to put a budget out for years. he's growing frustrated. i'm sure he's going to be glad to leave. but i was surprised by that as well. you see also, sam stein, republicans are now starting to real
type of constitution in which the people can have a say in electing their government. and where the countries then are put on a more stable footing. because once that goes, then what? so this is fantastically difficult. once you lift the lid off these very repressive regimes and out comes all this religious and tribal tension, we have to find a way to stabilizing the situation and bring the bloodshed to an end. >> elsewhere in the region, egypt right now, we're seeing these protesters, these anti-mohammed morsi protesters moving closer and closer towards the presidential pass palace in cairo. they're concerned about what morsi is doing as far as democracy in egypt. how worried are you about the situation in egypt? >> i think egypt is key to the region, so the answer is, you've got to be extremely worried when you see instability affecting egypt. this is, again, the birth pangs of proper democracy in some ways, but this struggle is immensely important. obviously what's important in these countries where they've moved to a democratic system is that there is a clear understanding t
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